Troubleshooting A Safe That does not openAfter making sure you have the correct combination
- Hello, I have just recently gotten access to 2 mosler flat sill vault doors that have not been opened since the early 1970's. The serial number says that it is from 1937 but I have no idea which lock is installed. The combo has long been forgotten and I want to try to open them through manipulation but, would like to know which model lock I have first.
- Mar 29, 2019 To crack a safe, start by using a stethoscope to listen to the safe as you turn the dial, which will help you determine how many numbers are in the combination. Then, continue to rotate the dial and write down the numbers it lands on whenever you hear 2 clicks close to each other.
Dec 30, 2010 Showed photos of Gleason's find, LaBarge, a self-styled antique safe and vault expert who has spent nearly 30 years legally cracking safes, said the vials and brackets appear to be a classic.
The first thing to do is check the handle and door. The handle should wiggle a little and the door should have a small amount of play so that it can be moved in and out slightly. Anything that might seem too snug might be a cause of 'Back pressure' and even if the lock is ready to unlock, parts that would need to move freely inside the door cannot move because they are being held by what we will call 'Back pressure'. Try pushing in on the door while wiggling the handle or putting more pressure on the handle in the direction it normally locks or moving the handle so it seems to be in a more neutral position that is no longer putting 'Back pressure' on the lock bolt could help.
Next we can try to determine if it is the lock actually malfunctioning. An indication of a lock malfunctioning could be that after the combination is dialed correctly, the dial stops, but it does not stop at the usual number and the safe is not opening. This can also be the result of 'Back pressure' and could be other things as well. Try moving the handle while turning the dial at the same time. When wiggling the handle does not free up the dial to allow turning it to the opening number and unlocking the safe, you should stop and call a skilled safe technician because there are other problems.
WARNING: Do not turn the dial with excessive torque or use pliers. You will almost certainly break something and create a more serious problem.
When the combination is dialed and the lock does not stop on the last turn as it should, there can be many reasons. Basically, the parts inside the lock are most likely not aligning correctly to engage the mechanism that pulls the bolt in and unlocks the lock.
Move the handle before you dial. After dialing the third number, as you are turning the dial toward the last or opening number, turn the dial very slowly while you wiggle the handle back and forth briskly. The vibration might help to engage the mechanisms. Stop turning the dial briefly at the number 7 and give a few extra wiggles to the handle before you continue to turn the dial further.
Try adding a number to each number in the combination, then try subtracting a number, then try adding or subtracting 2 numbers. Try adding a number to only one number at a time or in different variations of the numbers plus and minus 1 or 2 numbers. Wiggling the handle as described in the previous paragraph while dialing these different combinations can help.
If the dial stops as it should and the safe is still not opening, stop there and contact a skilled safe technician.
When the lock seems unlocked and the handle moves only slightly more than before the lock was unlocked, yet it is still not enough to open the door, this may be indicating that the lock is working correctly and that the problem is more likely caused from the bolt works inside the door malfunctioning.
Best advice for this problem is to have a skilled safe technician provide service.
About the Simple or Obvious
Step away from the safe for a few moments and think about any obvious reasons for the lock not unlocking or the door not opening.
Could the numbers have been changed and perhaps that information was not forwarded to you ?
Do you have the right combination and are you dialing it correctly ?
We have seen this can be the cause of a problem often enough that it is worth considering.
If you are part of a management team, verify that no changes were made and that you are using the correct steps with someone else.
Has the safe been progressively getting harder to open ?
This was a good indication that eventually failure was inevitable. Contacting an expert safe technician for emergency services instead of routine service is often costlier. Open safes are always easier to service.
On a combination lock with a dial, the dial ring which is mounted against the door beneath the dial and has the line marked at the top should not be loose, if it is loose, it could have moved enough that your combination numbers no longer align the wheels inside properly. You might be able to adjust it back to the proper position or you can try adjusting the combination numbers by plus or minus 1 or 2 numbers as suggested in an earlier paragraph. A loose dial ring will still need a skilled safe technician to repair.
How To Crack An Antique Mosler Safe Mode
The above are only a few common issues to troubleshoot for and should you get the safe open, consider contacting a safe tech before you close or lock the door. Open safes are much easier to service
Skilled safe technicians usually have many methods they might try to get your safe open before having to resort to drilling.
When a professional safe technician does have to drill, the drilling does not usually destroy the entire safe. Often with replacement of a malfunctioning lock and plugging the hole, repairs can usually put a worthy safe back in service.
We Recommend contacting BOSTON LOCK & SAFE CO. For expert safe Technicians or Referrals
- 29/11/17
Antique Mosler Safe For Sale
Four Parts: If you've forgotten the combination to your safe, resorting to a professional locksmith could cost a lot of money, while forcing your way through could ruin both tools and safe. Cracking the combination yourself takes a great deal of patience and effort, but you are rewarded with a full wallet, an undamaged safe, and a sense of satisfaction. The highly detailed steps in this article can also provide fantastic details for any writers of fiction wishing to include a dramatic safe cracking scene in their work. Read on from step one to found out how to open a safe you have permission to crack or a fictional one! Understand a safe's wheels. Also called tumblers, these circular objects encircle the spindle but are not attached to them.
They must be caught by the drive pin in order to rotate. • A combination lock has one wheel for each number in its combination (typically 2–6). For instance, a lock with a 3-number combination (e.g. 25-7-14) has three wheels. • Knowing how many wheels there are is important for cracking the safe, but there are ways to discover this number without knowing the combination (see later parts).
• Small tabs on the wheel called the wheel fly catch against the drive pin or next wheel and sets them rotating. This term is not important to remember for this guide; just know that the drive cam makes contact with the wheels to set them spinning. Understand how wheel notches come into play. Each wheel has a notch (also called a gate) at one point along its circumference. When each wheel is rotated so the notch is at the top, the fence falls into those notches. The lever moves, and the door mechanism is unlocked.
• You can see why there is one wheel for each combination number. When you dial the first number, the first wheel is rotated to a position with its notch directly below the fence. You then reverse the direction of your rotation to disengage with that wheel and turn the next to its correct position. • The drive cam also has a notch for different reasons.
Paul Midgette Posts. Back in '93 I tried to crack a combination lock using the robotics kits we had in my. I have an old Mosler safe having 4. Mosler- Safe/. The front reads (from top to bottom): Galmar Nelson Lumber Co.; The Mosler Safe. There is a safe cracking. Safe Cracking; Page 1 of 2 1 2 Last. Jump to page. But first I would contact. About 15 years ago I bought a Mosler safe from a plant I worked in - brand new, 10 years old and open - for $20. Decoding a mosler safe in reply to Duke.
The intended purpose is not important to know for this guide, but remember that this notch will 'click' every time it slips past the lever (stationary part attached to the fence). • (Extra information for the curious: once the fence falls and releases the locking mechanism, the drive cam notch catches onto the bolt physically blocking the door and pulls it out of the way.). Place a stethoscope near the dial surface. Believe it or not, this Hollywood trope is actually used by professional locksmiths. Placing the stethoscope in both ears and the bell end against the safe wall amplifies the sounds you're listening for. • The mechanism you're listening to is located directly behind the dial, but obviously you cannot cover up the dial since you'll need to turn it.
Try moving the stethoscope between different spots adjacent to the dial as you spin the combination until you find the most audible location. • Metal safes reverberate the sounds and make them easier to hear. These are a good choice for a beginning hobbyist. Rotate the dial counterclockwise and listen carefully for two clicks near each other. Rotate slowly and be ready to note the dial positions. • One click will be fainter than the other, since the notch making the sound is sloped toward one side. • You're listening for the sound the drive cam notch makes when it slides under the lever arm (see Learn How a Combination Lock Functions).
Each side of the notch 'clicks' as the lever passes. • The drive cam's contact area is the name of the area on the dial face between these two clicks.
I bought this Meilink safe at auction. Sadly, the safe is locked and the combination is not available.
(Fortunately, at the same auction I bought a very nice Mosler safe with a secret lockable compartment that is open). Before I scrap this Meilink safe, I want to crack it open to see if perhaps there is gold or diamonds or some such inside. I have a acetylene torch, forklifts, etc. I am not interested in spending big money on locksmiths, safe crackers etc and I do not care to preserve the mechanism. This is a light duty safe and it weighs under 300 lbs. Any quick ideas of what I can do with it without wasting too much time.
Torch it from the bottom? I Stormin Mormon 08:06. In rec.crafts.metalworking Stormin Mormon wrote: >On 3/20/2014 12:15 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>Any quick ideas of what I can do with it without wasting too much >>>time. Torch it from the bottom?
>>>>too bad it's not cold out anymore. You could fill it with water and let it >>freeze.
>>Just truck freight it to some place cold? We had the perfect winter here in Chicago for fun activities like that. Could have just left it outside with a tarp over it for a couple days. Peter Fairbrother 10:48.
It looks more like a fire safe for protecting documents in a fire rather than a safe for valuables to me. Which means torching it from the bottom will take a lot of time and gas, and will likely destroy any interesting contents.
Dropping it a few times from a great height onto concrete or similar, or running a forklift into it, may break the Ming vase or anything else breakable inside, but should not burn any bearer bonds, diamonds (yes, they burn), money etc. You pays your money and you takes your chances. Shouldn't be too hard to crack though. I think there is also a very quick technique with a forklift which crooks use, but I can't remember it.
- Peter F Tim Wescott 11:40. Richard Feynmann, in his memoirs, has a very amusing chapter about safe- cracking (he was the unofficial safe-cracker for the Manhattan Project at Los Alamos, which he started mostly by playing jokes on his buddies). The VERY FIRST thing you do is call the manufacturer and ask them if they have a default combination when they ship the safe. Most safes with combinations that can be changed ship with the factory combination, and many people (particularly if it's a fire safe) don't bother with changing it. If it works, I'm a freaking genius.
If it doesn't -- well, then I'm no worse off than I am now, right? -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services Jon Elson 11:51. In rec.crafts.metalworking, Tim Wescott wrote: >On Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:42:26 -0500, Ignoramus10422 wrote: >>I bought this Meilink safe at auction.
Sadly, the safe is locked and the >>combination is not available. >The VERY FIRST thing you do is call the manufacturer and ask them if they >have a default combination when they ship the safe. Most safes with >combinations that can be changed ship with the factory combination, and >many people (particularly if it's a fire safe) don't bother with changing >it. After that, hire a safecracker off craigslist: Excerpt: Wyatt, 51, is a man with time on his hands.
He defines himself as a marginally employed computer repairman, a tinkerer in all things mechanical and an unrepentant coffee-shop slacker. He learned everything he knows about safecracking from a 34-page PDF document he found while doing a Google search on 'safecracking for the computer scientist.' [.] Rodgers recently bought a mid-century home in the Upper Castro neighborhood, which came complete with a 1-ton antique safe that prevented him from parking his car in the garage. He was offering 25 percent of the unknown contents to any person who could open the safe. The only catch was that the safecracker had to haul away the cracked safe when the job was done. [.] At 10:22 a.m., Wyatt cried out, 'I got it!'
Wintv Serial Key more. Rodgers came running over just as the several-hundred-pound door fell off the safe - a contractor had removed the hinges in a previously failed attempt to get in. Wyatt's reward was indeed 25 percent of the air in the safe.
Apart from that, nothing was inside. Still, Wyatt had a giant grin on his face as he held the inner workings of a lock like a shiny piece of gold. His curiosity had been quenched.
Elijah ------ no word how Wyatt, on his bicycle, was getting the safe out of there Leon Fisk 11:58. On Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:42:26 -0500 Ignoramus10422 wrote: >I bought this Meilink safe at auction. Sadly, the safe is locked and >the combination is not available. >>>Any quick ideas of what I can do with it without wasting too much >time. Torch it from the bottom?
First off I would try forcing a large, 6 ft or so pry bar in between the door and side. Maybe use a small sledge and some cold chisels along the same edge to gain some room for the big pry.
It really depends on how many bolts are in the door, how long they are, how well anchored. But I think a big pry bar will bend/spring the side away for you to gain entry:) -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b Remove no.spam for email David Billington 13:30. On 20/03/14 14:42, Ignoramus10422 wrote: I guy I know used to work in a quarry and they had been using an old safe that was around as an anvil for years. At some point it eventually got opened and it was found to be full of sweating dynamite, seems it was the safe for storing it in safely and that had been forgotten. The bomb squad got called and the stuff was safely disposed of and all that had used it thought what if it had gone up, of course if it had they wouldn't have known about it. David Billington 13:36.
On 20/03/14 20:36, David Billington wrote: >Peter, >>I remember an old OU IIRC film and it showed the burning of diamond >but they said the activation energy was so high the diamond needed to be >heated white hot with the likes of an OA torch and then placed in liquid >oxygen where it did burn. I know you're a chemist so maybe you know if >there's more to it. Short version: Carbon in any form will burn in air at above 800C or so, which is within normal flame temperatures.
Above about 650C diamond actually burns at a slightly lower activation energy than graphite or amorphous carbon, though the difference is very small and temperature-dependent. However diamond and graphite present nearly atomically-smooth surfaces to the air, and amorphous carbon doesn't. In the middle of these smooth surfaces the activation energy is quite a bit higher, and the temperature has to be above about 800C - while at the edges, and for the larger surface areas of amorphous carbons, the required temperatures are lower, perhaps 450-500C. And of course the hotter it is, the faster it burns. LOX is cold, and it will cool the carbon as well as reacting with it, so it helps to have the diamond red-hot when it enters the LOX. Not so important with a large diamond, but people don't burn large diamonds in LOX very often. Also diamond conducts heat better than anything else (except graphene) - and by quite a lot, it has about 5 times the thermal conductivity of the next contender, pure silver - so burning small lumps of it in LOX is a bit atypical.
-- Peter F Cydrome Leader 14:11. >>>Any quick ideas of what I can do with it without wasting too much >>>time. Torch it from the bottom? If it's a 'fire safe', and not a security safe, it's easy as heck to get into. Just peel off the sheet metal, crush the gypsum insulation, and cut with anything you like to get the box inside open. There's nothing 'secure' about a fire safe, because they aren't designed for that. Even if it's a security safe, unless it's a high-end one, the door bolts can be cut pretty easily.
It's unusual to find heat-sinking bolts in an inexpensive safe. (and even then, oxy-acetylene can cut the copper inserts, with some time and gas) The whole idea of a 'hardened' safe is to make it take too long for a crook to feel comfortable staying on the job. Someone who has time and no fear of cops or discovery can get into almost any safe with common tools. Lloyd Peter Fairbrother 16:12.
On 3/20/2014 4:30 PM, David Billington wrote: >I guy I know used to work in a quarry and they had been using an old >safe that was around as an anvil for years. At some point it eventually >got opened and it was found to be full of sweating dynamite, seems it >was the safe for storing it in safely and that had been forgotten. The >bomb squad got called and the stuff was safely disposed of and all that >had used it thought what if it had gone up, of course if it had they >wouldn't have known about it. I've heard that dynamite put into a camp fire burns gently without exploding. Ignoramus10422 17:57.
Have you tried the 'storage' combination? Assuming that the dial is a 0-100 dial, try 25, 50, 25, 0, starting to the left with over three full turns and stopping on 25. Then right two full turns plus what it needs to reach 50, then left one full turn plus what is needed to reach 25, and finally right to 0. Then, depending on the lock, either turn a tumbler bar in the center of the knob if present and keep going as far as it will go (perhaps another 1/8 turn or so), or just keep going to the right and see whether it unlocks. If it doesn't work you're out a few minutes of fiddling with the dials. If what is in it is paper, torching it from any surface will likely burn the paper. But the bottom might be the easiest path in.
Or -- put it just outside the door, and let it be known that it has gold in it -- and wait for someone else to open it before you pounce.:-) Good Luck, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- Jay Hennigan 20:47. On 3/20/14 7:42 AM, Ignoramus10422 wrote: >I bought this Meilink safe at auction. Sadly, the safe is locked and >the combination is not available. >>>>Before I scrap this Meilink safe, I want to crack it open to see if >perhaps there is gold or diamonds or some such inside.
I have a >acetylene torch, forklifts, etc. A Skilsaw with a cutoff wheel along the left edge of the door about an inch in from the seam should do the trick. You want to cut the bolts, likely two of them equally spaced. Wear goggles! Jon Elson 21:17. On 3/20/2014 10:42 AM, Ignoramus10422 wrote: >I bought this Meilink safe at auction. Sadly, the safe is locked and >the combination is not available.
>>>>(Fortunately, at the same auction I bought a very nice Mosler safe >with a secret lockable compartment that is open). >>Before I scrap this Meilink safe, I want to crack it open to see if >perhaps there is gold or diamonds or some such inside. I have a >acetylene torch, forklifts, etc. >>I am not interested in spending big money on locksmiths, safe crackers >etc and I do not care to preserve the mechanism. This is a light duty >safe and it weighs under 300 lbs.
>>Any quick ideas of what I can do with it without wasting too much >time. Torch it from the bottom? >>i >Drill one hole, fill with water then insert a small explosive charge.
Ignoramus23598 14:38. In article, Ignoramus10422 wrote: >On 2014-03-20, David Billington wrote: >>On 20/03/14 14:42, Ignoramus10422 wrote: >>>I bought this Meilink safe at auction. Sadly, the safe is locked and >>>the combination is not available. >>>>>>>>>>>>(Fortunately, at the same auction I bought a very nice Mosler safe >>>with a secret lockable compartment that is open). >>>>>>Before I scrap this Meilink safe, I want to crack it open to see if >>>perhaps there is gold or diamonds or some such inside. I have a >>>acetylene torch, forklifts, etc. >>>>>>I am not interested in spending big money on locksmiths, safe crackers >>>etc and I do not care to preserve the mechanism.
This is a light duty >>>safe and it weighs under 300 lbs. >>>>>>Any quick ideas of what I can do with it without wasting too much >>>time. Torch it from the bottom?
>>>>>>i >>I guy I know used to work in a quarry and they had been using an old >>safe that was around as an anvil for years. At some point it eventually >>got opened and it was found to be full of sweating dynamite, seems it >>was the safe for storing it in safely and that had been forgotten. The >>bomb squad got called and the stuff was safely disposed of and all that >>had used it thought what if it had gone up, of course if it had they >>wouldn't have known about it. >>What a fun story! Grant Sarver was a working blacksmith in Tacoma WA who had a standing contract with many demo companies to repoint their jackhammer bits. One day he put a pile of bits in the forge to heat up and walked back to his office. The explosion took out is forge, all the windows in his shop and a few other innocent bystander tools nearby.
Turns out the demo company sent him some old bits that had been made from sucker rod from a rock quarry. One of them had been used to pack ammonium nitrate into blast holes and the hole down the center of the bit had become packed full of it. When the ends got peened shut from use nobody knew it was a pipe bomb. You can pound on ammonium nitrate all day long and nothing happens, but it didn't seem to like being heated to 1600 degF. The demo company gave him a new forge and a small pile of cash. Grant Sarver passed away a few years back.
Larry Langdon inherited his bit pointing business. Et.@whidbey.com 17:13. On 2014-03-22, wrote: >On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 17:54:44 -0500, Jon Elson >wrote: >>>Ignoramus23598 wrote: >>>>>Well, I got it opened. Details and photos here: >>>>>>>>Well, that's spectacularly boring! Or, did you lift out the 3 Kg of >>gold bars before you took the picture? >>>>Jon >He doesn't know it but the safe was probably full of Dark Matter. Most >likely WIMPs, AKA Weakly Interacting Massive Particles.
If he tips the >safe over the WIMPs will flow out and through the floor. Then he can >Kenwood Th 75e Manual High School. weigh the safe and tell us how much Dark Matter was in there. >Eric Want to buy that dark matter? It is very valuable dark matter, aged well inside that safe. Nichols 19:06. On 2014-03-21, Ignoramus23598 wrote: >Well, I got it opened. Details and photos here: >>A pity that there was nothing in it.
I would not have expected valuables, but perhaps something interesting to read at least.:-) Did you make any attempt to recover the lock? I would have. Once you have one apart, you can reset the combination to something known.
But working through that hole you made would not be fun, especially if you don't already know how the locks are installed and assembled. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- Lloyd E. Sponenburgh 19:15. On Thursday, March 20, 2014 at 7:42:26 AM UTC-7, Ignoramus10422 wrote: >I bought this Meilink safe at auction. Sadly, the safe is locked and >the combination is not available. >>>>(Fortunately, at the same auction I bought a very nice Mosler safe >with a secret lockable compartment that is open).
>>Before I scrap this Meilink safe, I want to crack it open to see if >perhaps there is gold or diamonds or some such inside. I have a >acetylene torch, forklifts, etc.
>>I am not interested in spending big money on locksmiths, safe crackers >etc and I do not care to preserve the mechanism. This is a light duty >safe and it weighs under 300 lbs.
>>Any quick ideas of what I can do with it without wasting too much >time. Torch it from the bottom? >>i The safe is a Meilink 9030. Definitely any assistance will be most appreciated. That's about all I can tell you.